I can always tell I've succeeded in particiating in an IETF discussion when someone yells at me when I say something I thought was reasonable. that's why they call it "rough" concensus. Rodney Thayer :: rodney@sabletech.com Sable Technology Corp :: +1 617 332 7292 246 Walnut St :: Fax: +1 617 332 7970 Newton MA 02160 USA :: http://www.shore.net/~sable "Developers of communications software"