Pointcast had a press release from last night from Cisco, Nortell, and Shiva announcing 'layer two forwarding' that they had submitted to the IETF for a standard. Can the Cisco and other members here comment on what l2f gives over ipsec? Why should l2f become more than an informational RFC and why even is it needed? Robert Moskowitz Chrysler Corporation (810) 758-8212