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Re: "user" and "network layer" security. reply to respondents.



 
 
 
>Issue #1: 
> 
> Is it appropriate for IPSEC to break network architecture, given 
> the absence of experience implementing security on the proposed 
> scale? 
 
IPsec does not break the "Internet Architecture".  The use of the term "user" 
with IPsec security associations is confusing, but not inappropriate for some 
scenarios. Key management is an application layer activity where the security 
associations are created and provide authentication to peer application layer 
entities.  The security association is then available to be used by ESP, AH or 
perhaps other security mechanisms.  The authentication provided by 
applicaitons can be at the granularity of a "user".  The use of the resulting 
authenticaiton process can be enforced at the network layer using ESP or AH. 
 
There is significant experience fielding network layer security by various 
governments and defense contractors. There is also significant experience by 
many commercial vendors in the fielding of proprietary implementations of 
network layer security technologies. 
 
> 
>Issue #2: 
> 
> Where is it established that network layer mechanisms should be 
> used to implement application layer security? 
 
Should?  Secure systems can be built from many mechanisms. IPsec provides 
application layer authentication (key management) that can be used by a 
network layer security mechanism (ESP and/or AH). 
 
I do agree that there are issues with "user-oriented" versus 
"network-oriented" security.  My issue is with the information bound to a 
security association.  
 
 
The definition of naming approaches (public key infrastructure etc.) has moved 
even slower then IPsec :-)  The real issue that needs to be addressed is the 
naming framework that we are building into our security architecture.  One 
aspect of these names might be "what" they represent.  
 
 
Paul 
 
 
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The term "user" is undefined in the network layer of IP.  It has no
sensible context in a discussion of *network layer* security
mechanisms.  Moreover, introducing a parameter to the network layer
that corresponds to "user", breaks the network architecture.  These
are basic facts of IP architecture.  The basic facts of IP
architecture are established by agreed upon definition.

Important issues are raised by these basic facts.  Arguments such
as those based on suggested hacks of network codes and operating
systems, are all specious with respect to the real issues.

Issue #1:

 Is it appropriate for IPSEC to break network architecture, given
 the absence of experience implementing security on the proposed
 scale?

Issue #2:

 Where is it established that network layer mechanisms should be
 used to implement application layer security?


Regards,
Mitch Nelson
netsec@panix



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