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RE: IBM VPN Bakeoff Issues



Yes, I know what it says - I was wondering why it said it. Can you clarify?
Steve.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Jenkins [mailto:tjenkins@TimeStep.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 2:13 PM
To: Stephen Waters
Cc: ipsec@tis.com
Subject: RE: IBM VPN Bakeoff Issues





--- 
Tim Jenkins                       TimeStep Corporation 
tjenkins@timestep.com          http://www.timestep.com
<http://www.timestep.com>  
(613) 599-3610 x4304               Fax: (613) 599-3617 


> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Stephen Waters [ mailto:Stephen.Waters@digital.com
<mailto:Stephen.Waters@digital.com> ] 
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:02 AM 
> To: Tim Jenkins 
> Cc: ipsec@tis.com 
> Subject: RE: IBM VPN Bakeoff Issues 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> > 12. Does ESP-NULL require padding (the ESP doc says 4-byte 
> alignment, 
> > ESP-NULL doc says 1-byte alignment).  The consensus was that ESP is 
> > 4-byte aligned. 
> 
> There is no ambiguity. ESP in general requires 4 byte padding 
> or a multiple 
> of 4. ESP-NULL has a block length of 1. Since the padding used for a 
> particular combination of ESP and an encryption algorithm is 
> the lowest 
> common multiple of 4 (from ESP) and the block length of the 
> cipher, the 
> result is that ESP with the NULL cipher uses a padding of 4 
> (or 8, or 12, 
> ...) 
> [[SW]] There may not be any ambiguity, but there is contradiction and 
> confusion :) We're not talking about 'ESP in general' though, 
> right, this is 
> NULL-ESP, and I don't understand why NULL-ESP should have any 
> padding, let 
> alone 4 bytes. NULL-ESP actually means ESP-Authentication, 
> and the mandatory 
> authentication algorithms don't need padding.  One problem is 
> where folk 
> want to pad for other reasons - then your left with the dilemma of not 
> knowing if it was applied or not. With PPP ECP, if there is 
> no need to pad, 
> but the last octet of data could be taken for a pad length, 
> then explicit 
> padding is added. Since the pad length can be 0-255, I guess 
> that means a 
> pad length is mandatory, but why can't I just add a single 
> byte with value 0 
> if I'm not interested in padding? 

The ESP document specifically says you must effectively have 4-byte padding
requirements (including the Pad Length and Next Header fields). 

Start Quote: 

           o Padding also may be required, irrespective of encryption 
             algorithm requirements, to ensure that the resulting 
             ciphertext terminates on a 4-byte boundary. Specifically, the 
             Pad Length and Next Header fields must be right aligned within 
             a 4-byte word, as illustrated in the ESP packet format figure 
             above, to ensure that the Authentication Data field (if 
             present) is aligned on a 4-byte boundary. 

End Quote 


> 
> > 16. If an initiator requests an SA with only a single IP address as 
> > the destination, but the responder has a local policy of a subnet 
> > (instead of a single IP address), should it fail the negotiation? 
> >  Some vendors were doing this. 
> 
> Yes, it should fail. Because then the initiator could then 
> request another 
> SA for the next IP address in the range the responder wanted 
> to use in the 
> first place. And then the next one. So you end up with a 
> whole bunch of SAs 
> that you don't need, and you may end up with a management 
> issue that you 
> didn't want. If your system is configured for a subnet, than 
> that's probably 
> what the administrator wants. 
> [[SW]] The architecture does discuss how policies can cause 
> the creation of 
> SA where the selector values are taken from the packet (or 
> the ISAKMP ID 
> payloads I guess), so this sounds like a management issue 
> where the response 
> will be determined by the options set on the policy. 
> 
>  
> 

I'll reverse my position on this one. Both you and Dan H. have pointed out
that this should be a local implementation decision, not a standards
decision.