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Re: Heartbeats (was RE: keepalives)




>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> writes:
>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Koning <pkoning@xedia.com> writes:
>>>>> "Michael" == Michael C Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> writes:

    Michael> My opinion is that clients don't do heartbeats, since they
    Michael> don't have 2000 SAs that they want to track.

    Paul> But there are other reasons to do heartbeats.  For example, if
    Paul> you want to verify that the security gateway still knows about
    Paul> your SAs (so you can negotiate new ones if the old ones have
    Paul> vanished for some reason).  As far as I can see, this "black
    Paul> hole detection" is a valuable, perhaps the most valuable,
    Paul> benefit of heartbeat.

    Michael> If there is traffic flowing, then the SA is alive.  If you
    Michael> want to insert a ping, and need an address, and the ping
    Michael> will fit into the SA in the first place, then ping the
    Michael> remote end of an open TCP connection.

    Paul> The interesting case of course is where you are sending secured
    Paul> traffic out but aren't receiving any back.  So in that case you need a 
    Paul> heartbeat to decide what the situation is.

  I agree. You aren't using TCP in that case, so you don't have a TCP-only
SA. It might be UDP, but it isn't RPC. You might be sending multicast, in
which case it makes no sense to have a heartbeat.

    Paul> How can you ping the remote end of an open TCP connection?  Routers
    Paul> don't know anything about open TCP connections.  There may not be any
    Paul> open TCP connections, of course...

  If you don't know about the TCP connections, then how did you open that
TCP-only SA?

]      Out and about in Ottawa.    hmmm... beer.                |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [




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