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RE: phase 2 and ports




I also have this very same problem. I have posted some messages regarding
this issue in the past but it did not trigger a discussion (see
http://www.vpnc.org/ietf-ipsec/mail-archive/msg00555.html ).

I was considering suggesting additions to the ID payload itself to include a
"virtual router" identifier to solve this issue but I agree that a Policy
Payload (or Selector Payload) could also solve it.

The question is how to identify a virtual router in a global way. That can
be easy in a private environment but more complicated in an open one. One
suggestion that I would have is to use a global VPN identifier as defined in
RFC 2685 (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2685.txt?number=2685).

Claudio Lordello.
Siemens.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Daniel Fox [SMTP:dfox@ennovatenetworks.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, June 27, 2000 3:49 PM
> To:	Jan Vilhuber
> Cc:	Scott G. Kelly; Stephen Kent; Dan Harkins; ipsec@lists.tislabs.com;
> dfox@ennovatenetworks.com
> Subject:	Re: phase 2 and ports
> 
> A new Policy Payload could also solve the problem I currently have, which
> occurs when dealing with more than one IP Address Realm. 
> 
> Say for instance, customer A has his own private IP network distinctly
> separate from customer B's network.  Customer A and B each have a "virtual
> router" on the VPN switch.  In this case, one needs to differentiate, in
> IKE, which IP network an SA pertains to. 
> 
> Look at this example: 
> 
> 10.1/16  ---------+                             +------- 10.2/16 
> network A         |                             |        network B 
>                +-------+                     +-------+ 
>                |VPN    |--Global IP Network--|VPN    | 
>                |Switch |                     |Switch | 
>                +-------+                     +-------+ 
>                   |                             | 
> 10.1/16 ----------+                             +------- 10.2/16 
> network B                                                network A 
> 
> In IKE, in order to set up an SA for packets going from 10.1/16 to 10.2/16
> in network A, you need to specify for the SA: 
> network A 
> source 10.1/16 
> destination 10.1/16 
> 
> Currently, there is no way to specify this kind of topology in IKE. 
> 
> Now this brings up the issue that more and more complex policies may be
> envisioned.  The Policy Payload could be extensibly defined to allow for
> this. 
> 
> Another global solution that I have in mind is to have all policies
> configured out-of-band, and simply have IKE include a Policy Identifier. 
> 
> Jan Vilhuber wrote: 
> 
> 	On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Scott G. Kelly wrote: 
> 	> Stephen Kent wrote: 
> 	> > 
> 	> > Jan is right.  We used to have port ranges and similar features
> for 
> 	> > SPD configuration in the I-D precursor to RFC 2401, but they
> were 
> 	> > deleted because IKE didn't support them and nobody wanted to
> change 
> 	> > the IKE spec. 
> 	> > 
> 	> > Note, that we have a WG on IP security policy and it is
> exploring 
> 	> > ways to offer real negotiation for IPsec peers, prior to IKE 
> 	> > exchanges.  That way one need not add complexity to IKE but one
> can 
> 	> > offer more sophisticated negotiation capabilities. 
> 	> > 
> 	> > Steve 
> 	> 
> 	> I agree that actual policy exchange might be better handled within
> ipsp, 
> 	> but I would really like to see ike support something more
> comprehensive 
> 	> than the current mechanism. If we wished to minimize complexity,
> this 
> 	> could consist in simply permitting multiple ID payloads, 
> 
> 	Skip also suggested this to me. I rejected this, because I don't
> like the 
> 	implicit semantics of the two ID payloads to begin with. Having
> multiples of 
> 	two ID payloads just adds to the non-obvious nature of how ID
> payloads are 
> 	used in phase 2. 
> 
> 	I'd much rather come up with a new payload. In my mind I dubbed it
> the 
> 	selector payload, but someone else mentioned Policy Payload, which I
> can also 
> 	live with. 
> 
> 	jan 
> 
> 	> and/or adding 
> 	> some new ID payloads to facilitate ranges. I think this is a
> serious 
> 	> shortcoming in terms of real-world requirements. 
> 	> 
> 	> On a related note, I think we may be getting bogged down with this
> 
> 	> notion that we can't change ike in any way. While I think it would
> be 
> 	> ill-advised to change ike in a fundamental way (i.e. changing one
> of the 
> 	> existing exchanges in a way that creates interoperability and 
> 	> compatibility issues), I think we should be open to extending ike
> when a 
> 	> solid case for it exists. 
> 	> 
> 	> Scott 
> 	> 
> 
> 	 -- 
> 	Jan Vilhuber
> vilhuber@cisco.com 
> 	Cisco Systems, San Jose                                     (408)
> 527-0847
>  << File: Card for Daniel Fox >> 


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