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Re: IPSEC Security Gateways & NAT




On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Ricky Charlet wrote:

> Howdy,
> 
> 	Question below:

Answer below.

> 
> Hugo Krawczyk wrote:
> 
> > SKEYID and related key derivation is the SIMPLEST possible mechanism I can
> > think of to support in a UNIFORM way the myriad of current requirements
> > and options. I actually worked hard to make SKEYID the only changing piece
> > with all of SKEYID_a/d/e and HASH_I/R all derived in the SAME way in
> > spite of all the different modes.
> > 
> > 
> > Hugo
> >  Dan Harkins wrote:
> > >
> > > Provided that the Diffie-Hellman is authenticated I guess we could say
> > > that the resultant secret is something known only by the parties to
> > > the exchange and therefore having g^xy (and not the pre-shared key) is
> > > good enough. But I'm not a cryptographer and I didn't come up with the
> > > key derivation.
> > >
> > > I'm all for simplifying and unifying SKEYID generation. Are there any
> > > comments on this proposal? Hugo, are you out there?
> > >
> > >   Dan.
> > >
> > >
> 
> 	I have long been confused by the derivation of SKEYID. I'm certianly
> not expert enough to suggest changing it, but I do request that we
> formally document its design goals. As Dan menetions, using g^xy alone
> for SKEYID in all cases seems entirely sufficient to me (and I'm sure to

I don't think that Dan was suggesting what you say, but in any case 
such suggestion would make all non-signature modes insecure.
In particular, the preshared mode.

> most implementors). What goals/requiremetns lead us to wish to include
> other elemetns and in 2 cases NOT use g^xy at all in SKEYID?

I have written a note intended to give a high level answer to this.
I'll send it next to the list.

> 
> 	I have seen the assertion that SKEYID is a SIMPLE as it can be and yet
> meet all the requirements. I've also seen the assertion that these other
> data elements in SKEYID are ESSENTIAL to security. Well then, it sounds
> like something I as an impelementor should be able to understand. I need
> a document showing the design reqirements, how they lead to the current
> SKEYID derivations and how these decisions shore up security. Preferably
> in the form of a few added paragraphs to the son-of-ike draft. Please.

The note is trying to explain this too (btw, what I called "essential" is
the fact that SKEYID needs to be different in the different modes).

The note maybe a bit too long to be included in son-of-ike draft,
but Dan is welcome to transcribe any information from there to the 
draft.

Hugo


> 
> -- 
>   Ricky Charlet   : Redcreek Communications   : usa (510) 795-6903
> 




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