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Re: Son of IKE: A proposal for moving forward



As an aid to expressing my concerns and needs let me provide a context for 
my prior comments.

Verizon is currently developing the architecture for a Next Generation 
Network (NGN) that is based on non-TDM technologies.  This NGN will serve 
as Verizon's core network infrastructure well into the 21st century and 
must be a highly available, reliable and trustable infrastructure that will 
scale to 100,000s of intermediate nodes, 10,000s of server platforms and 
millions of customers across the globe.  Given the scaling issues in such a 
network we want to use IPsec, coupled with PKI technology, within our 
NGN.  Although not specifically an IPsec issue, we also have to contend 
with different trust domains within Verizon, between Verizon and peer 
carriers and between Verizon and our customers and would establish a 
hierarchy of CAs for issuing X.509 certificates to Verizon network elements 
as well as to Verizon, and non-Verizon, people and organizations.

Our NGN, from a control and management perspective, is a "green field" 
deployment and our proposed approach would use IPv6, with mandatory IPsec, 
for all control, signaling and management traffic within our NGN 
infrastructure.  We are concerned with protecting control plane, management 
plane and application-specific signaling traffic within our NGN on an 
end-node to end-node basis.  The protection needed is primarily 
authentication with some traffic (specifically billing info, customer 
profiles and user application log-in identifiers/passwords) requiring 
confidentiality.

We intend to use control plane protocols, such as RSVP-TE or CR-LDP, 
between all intermediate nodes.  These nodes (such as GMPLS controlled 
optical switches, (G)MPLS enabled routers, SONET-ADMs, etc.) will need to 
continuously communicate with each other where all exchanged information 
must be strongly authenticated.  This will necessitate SAs that are 
basically permanent yet either re-keyable or replaceable in a controlled 
and synchronized manner.  The traffic flowing over these SAs require 
authentication either by AH or null-encrypted ESP.  At this point we do not 
see one approach (AH or null-encrypted ESP) as significantly better that 
the other.  We would most likely use transport mode for efficiency and do 
not have to worry about NAT given an IPv6 based addressing and 
inter-networking architecture within our infrastructure.  Control plane 
interaction at trust domain boundaries will utilize an OIF-UNI approach, 
not peering, so we can make necessary access control decisions on NGN usage 
requests.

Some of our management layer applications (OAM&P) we will be developing 
in-house and some of these applications we will be purchasing from 
vendors.  Our element and network management OAM&P applications operate on 
a 7 by 24 basis.  Many of our NGN system and business management OAM&P 
applications will also have to operate 7 by 24 to support customer and peer 
carrier self-provisioning/management dynamic requests. The OAM&P protocols 
will include SNMPvX, CORBA, Telnet (with TL1), Xterm, FTP, HTTP/HTML and in 
some cases TFTP where unavoidable.  The use of XML will grow over 
time.  Given the wide variety of protocols here we cannot afford to use 
protocol specific security approaches that are managed independently and 
would be very difficult and expensive to manage and maintain in an 
infrastructure as large as our NGN will be.  IPsec is the only approach 
available that is protocol neutral and centrally manageable.

Since the use of SNMP and CORBA will be continuous between managed elements 
and element/network managers we would anticipate using the same type of 
basically permanent SAs  described above for control plane protocols. The 
Telnet (with TL1), Xterm, FTP and TFTP protocols we would want to use with 
dynamic SAs that are negotiated at TCP session setup and torn down when the 
TCP sessions end.  The use of HTTP/HTML and XML would incur significant 
overhead if secured via dynamic SAs, yet do not really require use of 
permanent SAs, so I would propose the ability to establish semi-permanent 
SAs that have a defined lifetime and are torn down when their lifetime is 
reached unless recently used within the last XXX seconds or minutes.

Thus we need three types of SAs that can be established between two 
communication nodes:

a)  permanent SAs that can be established with specified destination nodes, 
when either node boots/reboots, and can be rekeyed, or replaced with new 
SAs, after specified time periods have elapsed in a controlled and 
synchronized manner.

b)  semi-permanent, or static, SAs that exist for specified time periods 
and can be used by applications.  An application needing to communicate 
with a corresponding application in another node can request use of a 
static SA and the IPsec portion of the protocol stack will use one if it 
exists or establish one if none currently exist.  When one of these static 
SAs has reached/exceeded its specified life-span of time it would be torn 
down provided it has not been used within the last XXX seconds or minutes.

c) dynamic SAs that are negotiated at TCP session setup and torn down when 
the TCP sessions end.  These SAs could possibly exist for long periods of 
time (eg. long Xterm sessions or very large file transfers) so they should 
be able to be rekeyed, or replaced with new SAs, after specified time 
periods have elapsed in a controlled and synchronized manner.

 From a usability perspective, there should be some type of data structure 
that can be configured to contain default and maximum values for all SAs 
created by the network element.  I would proposed that some of these values 
include:
-  maximum SA time before re-keying
-  preferred authentication mechanism (AH or null-encryption ESP)
-  minimum allowed algorithm for AH
-  preferred algorithm for AH
-  minimum allowed algorithm for null-encryption ESP
-  preferred algorithm for null-encryption ESP
-  <similar types of values for confidentiality provided by ESP>

Applications will most likely use a socket based mechanism to establish a 
communications path to another network node and should be able to easily 
specify the type of SA, if any, desired.  I would like to see an 
application be able to state it wants no SA, a permanent SA, a static SA or 
a dynamic SA  used.  An application should be able to ask for an SA based 
on the network element default values, yet on the other hand be able to 
request an SA with values that over ride the network element default values.

Forgive me for possibly being long-winded.  My intent is simply to assist 
the WG in understanding what kinds of capabilities we want IPsec to 
provide.  May this serve as input to section 4.3 of 
draft-ietf-ipsec-sonofike-rqts-00.txt

Stu

t 6/13/02 12:05 PM, you wrote:
>I urge you to review
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipsec-sonofike-rqts-00.txt
>and provide feedback. This groups lacks a lot of real-world customer
>feedback and Cheryl would appreciate having any feedback.
>
>jan
>
>
>On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Stuart Jacobs wrote:
>
> > If this group restricts their focus primarily on the VPN scenarios below
> > then they are ignoring a major role that IPsec is expected to fill by large
> > enterprises.
> >
> > Verizon is in the process of developing the security architecture for it's
> > next generation networks.  Given the magnitude of these networks and FCC
> > requirements for open access, we must have the ability to universally
> > establish strongly authenticated identities of communicating network
> > elements.  This authentication must be able to span many trust domains, be
> > continuous to avoid any chance of session hi-jacking and scale to millions
> > of nodes.  IPsec, coupled with PKI, is the only technology that can even
> > begin to meet our needs.
> >
> > We are relying on this WG to include in it's scope mechanisms that allow
> > two network elements, regardless of their functions within a network, to be
> > able to use IKE and ISAKMP, with PKI based X.509 certs, to establish one or
> > more SAs that these two elements can then use to continuously authenticate,
> > and optionally encrypt for confidentiality, UDP, TCP or SCTP transport
> > layer communication sessions.  This fundmental capability is critical for
> > our use of IP technology for the transport of SS7 traffic, VoIP application
> > signalling, (G)MPLS control plane signalling and OAM&P traffic.
> >
> > Without the ability of using IPsec we will be forced to use stove-pipe TSL
> > methods that rarely interoperate, have never been proven to scale the the
> > number of subjects we must contend with, will significantly increas
> > complexity of operational controls, and increas management expense.
> >
> > Stu Jacobs
> > Verizon Network Security Architecture
> >
> >
> > At 6/12/02 01:02 PM, you wrote:
> > >At 9:43 AM -0700 6/12/02, Michael Thomas wrote:
> > >>The one thing I don't see here is any
> > >>consideration of the very basic question of
> > >>whether there are in fact two different problem
> > >>spaces.
> > >
> > >There are certainly more than two.
> > >
> > >Michael is correct here in that we cannot evaluate the WG questions for
> > >the general problem of keying all possible uses of IPsec. Well, we can
> > >try, but it would be a waste of time (but typical of many IETF Working
> > >Groups...). At the end of the effort, we would probably have no general
> > >agreement on the significant questions.
> > >
> > >Having said that, and showing my obvious bias towards VPNs, I propose that
> > >as we answer the questions, we do so with today's VPN customers in mind.
> > >These folks mostly do two things:
> > >
> > >a) gateway-to-gateway, with each gateway possibly connecting to many other
> > >gateways
> > >
> > >b) access over modems (or faster) from remote single-user computers
> > >
> > >Let's get SOI done right for these customers.
> > >
> > >Doing so doesn't prevent work from a different key exchange mechanism that
> > >addresses a different use case; the most obvious one that probably won't
> > >match with the use case above is remote access where there is a need for
> > >very quick keying, or where the remote parties have relatively slow CPUs,
> > >or where the remote parties have only small amounts of program memory, or
> > >some combination of these.
> > >
> > >The work we have done in the past few months can help focus the feature
> > >sets for each of these efforts, as well as for other efforts that might
> > >arise later. But let's not pretend that we can do it all at once in a
> > >single protocol -- we know we can't, and we have good evidence that we can
> > >waste a lot of time trying.
> > >
> > >--Paul Hoffman, Director
> > >--VPN Consortium
> >
> > ==========================
> > Stuart Jacobs CISSP
> > PMTS - Sr. Technologist
> > Verizon Laboratories
> > 40 Sylvan Road Waltham, MA 02451-1128     USA
> > telephone: (781) 466-3076   fax: (781) 466-2838
> > stu.jacobs@labs.gte.com sjj0@labs.gte.com  stu.jacobs@verizon.com
> > ==========================
> >
>
>  --
>Jan Vilhuber                                            vilhuber@cisco.com
>Cisco Systems, San Jose                                     (408) 527-0847
>
>http://www.eff.org/cafe

==========================
Stuart Jacobs CISSP
PMTS - Sr. Technologist
Verizon Laboratories
40 Sylvan Road Waltham, MA 02451-1128     USA
telephone: (781) 466-3076   fax: (781) 466-2838
stu.jacobs@labs.gte.com sjj0@labs.gte.com  stu.jacobs@verizon.com
==========================