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dam-l ENS interview with Dai Qing 5/26/99
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http://ens.lycos.com/ens/may99/1999L-05-26-01.html
Chinese Environmentalist Dai Qing Speaks Out on Three Gorges Dam
NEW YORK, New York, May 26, 1999 (ENS) - [Ed. note: During a
State Council meeting in Beijing May 19 and 20, Chinese Premier Zhu
Rongji outlined "two policy readjustments" for the world's largest
dam, the Three Gorges Project, now in the second stage of its
construction on the Yangtze River. Zhu cited environmental reasons
for the policy changes - the first to "readjust and improve" the
policy for relocating people and to readjust the policy for relocating
enterprises. Over one million people are scheduled to be relocated to
make way for the giant dam.
Zhu said the mountains are high and the slopes are steep in the
Three Gorges reservoir areas and the environmental capacity there
is quite limited. Following the rise in the level of the water stored in
the reservoir, more farmland will be inundated. "Land reclamation on
slopes with an angle greater than 25 degrees must be stopped and
reclaimed land on such slopes should be gradually restored to
forests...If we insist on relocating people in neighbouring areas, it
will be inevitable that land will be reclaimed from steep slopes,
vegetation will be damaged, new soil erosion will occur, the
ecological environment will be damaged, and untold troubles will
entail," Zhu told the State Council.
Scheduled for completion by 2009, Three Gorges is the largest
engineering project of any kind in the world. Its purpose is to control
Yangtze River floods, while generating 84 billion kilowatt-hours of
hydroelectric power each year, enough energy for most of central
and eastern China. Current plans call for the dam to create a
reservoir 375 miles long and 575 feet deep, with an average width of
3,600 feet - twice the width of the natural river. It will allow ocean
cargo ships and cruiseliners to navigate 1,500 miles inland to the
port city of Chongqing. With 15 million people, Chongqing will become
the largest seaport in the world. Dai Qing, one of the most
prominent Chinese environmentalists and the chief opponent of the
construction of Three Gorges Dam is in the United States as a
visiting scholar in the Wilson Center in Washington, D.C.
In New York on May 4, Environment News Service reporter Wang Ai
interviewed Dai Qing on the current situation with the construction
of Three Gorges Dam and on her own story of becoming
environmentally conscious. The following is the interview in its
entirety.]
Wang Ai (ENS): What is the situation on the Three Gorges Dam right
now?
Dai Qing (DQ): The debate on whether to build Three Gorges Dam
dates back to 1980. In 1992, actual construction began.
Construction is now in its second stage, which happens to be the
most critical, quality demanding, and expensive stage.
Dai Qing (Photos
courtesy Wang Xiaojia)
However, the project
itself has taken a
possible turn for the
better. With the death
of Deng Xiaoping and
aged officials who
supported Three
Gorges for political
reasons, as well as the
rise of Zhu Rongji as
China's premier and
increasing international
opposition to
construction, two
conflicting sides have
emerged with different goals. Those who are in favor of Three Gorges
have been speeding up the project.
ENS: Would you please explain what kind of "turn for the better" you
are talking about?
DQ: There are two possibilities as of now. First, opponents of Three
Gorges Dam feel that they might have a chance to terminate the
project completely. According to international environmentalists'
opinions, any big dam that works will greatly upset the ecological
balance. Therefore, to stop a dam's construction at any
point - no matter how far into the construction and how much money
has already been spent - or to leave a completed dam inactive would
be better than to allow the dam to function. We are now fighting to
stop the construction of the dam.
The second possibility is to alter the original planning of the dam.
Originally, Three Gorges Dam was designed to be 185 meters high.
Now we hope that Three Gorges could be lowered to 165 meters -
from a high dam to a low dam. If this were the case, the
hydroelectric output of the dam would be cut by more than half. Yet
the damage to the land would be greatly decreased. In addition, a
lower dam would mean that fewer people would have to be relocated.
And of course, lowering the dam would lessen its cost. Right now we
have hope for both possibilities.
ENS: Can you elaborate on how the changing political situation has
affected your hopes concerning Three Gorges Dam?
DQ: Most significantly, money. Three Gorges, as I've mentioned, has
reached the most expensive stage of its construction. Originally, the
project was to cost 600 billion yuan. A hundred billion has already
been spent. However, the project is running out of funds. Back in
1992, then-premier Li Peng raised every household's electricity bill by
three to seven li (one li = one tenth of one cent) and collected two
billion yuan. Since then, the government has used this method to get
more funding for Three Gorges. More recently, the government has
wanted to raise the electricity bill higher than it already has.
However, Zhu Rongji is opposed to such a measure. As an economic
expert, he says that the burden of building Three Gorges on ordinary
people and businesses should not be increased again.
Map showing location of the Three Gorges Dam Map courtesy
Canadian International Development Agency
So where will the money come from now? The government has issued
Three Gorges Dam stocks, but since the project is not a business for
profit, not many people have bought them. Loans from foreign banks
are also inadequate. All over the world, environmental organizations
have pressured their countries' governments not to support such an
ecologically damaging project. In the entire world, only banks in
Switzerland and Canada have given financial aid, and even these
countries are facing active protests from their own environmentalists.
Zhu Rongji has not spoken out against Three Gorges, yet he has not
approved of it either. He has emphasized the quality of a completed
Three Gorges Dam, saying that the government would like to invite
some international experts to visit China and inspect the quality of
Three Gorges.
We tend to like this idea because international analysts will be less
afraid to speak the truth than Chinese experts within China who are
very cautious not to offend the government. All of this which I have
just explained is the reason we have new hope. Particularly, we feel
that a lowered dam is a definite possibility.
ENS: Would you please tell me how you came to be involved in Three
Gorges Dam?
DQ: Let me tell you a little story first. Back in 1993, when I was a
visiting scholar at Harvard University, I was once invited to give a
lecture to students about Three Gorges Dam. Just as I got up there
in front of my audience, I started to cry uncontrollably. I felt too
lonely!
Around 1986, a group of old, respected Chinese scientists, including
Zhou Peiyuan and Lin Hua, visited Three Gorges to inspect the region
for dam construction. Upon returning to Beijing, all of them voiced
opposition to the idea of Three Gorges Dam. One day they organized
a conference in the Hall of the Chinese People's Political Forum. The
Ministry of Media told the press not to report this conference. The
hall is huge, capable of accomodating 2,000 persons, but only 200
people - none of whom were reporters - attended the conference.
Lin Hua called my mother and asked her to send me to the
conference, for at the time I was a reporter at the "Guanming Daily."
So I ended up being the only reporter to go to the conference. At
that point I knew nothing of Three Gorges Dam, but I found what the
scientists said there to be very reasonable. Because I was not
assigned to work on the section of the newspaper that would have
covered Three Gorges Dam, all I could do following the conference
was to walk into the office of my chief editor and tell him to be
careful when publishing articles in favor of Three Gorges Dam, for the
opposition I had heard in the conference sounded impressive. Besides
this there was absolutely nothing else I could do at the time.
In 1987, I visited Hong Kong. I discovered that many residents of
Hong Kong were talking about Three Gorges Dam, and I was very
touched by their concern for China. I met a writer named Lin Feng.
After he learned of my own concern about Three Gorges, he started
mailing me all Hong Kong newspaper articles about the dam. This was
how I got to know the issues of Three Gorges Dam inside out.
Before the Chinese New Year in 1989, the National People's Congress
and the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (the two
most important legislative bodies in China) were going to open their
sessions for that year. One of the major items on their agenda was
Three Gorges Dam. At the time, hardly a single Chinese citizen knew
of the disadvantages of building the dam.
I was extremely anxious. I felt that it was my responsibility to let
people know the opposing views on Three Gorges Dam. I thus invited
some of China's preeminent journalists to interview the scientists who
were against Three Gorges Dam. What I didn't know was that even
these prestigious journalists would be unable to publish their
interviews in the newspapers they dominated.
Next we tried to get the interviews
published in Beijing magazines, to no
avail. After this we found a distant
magazine in China. The people there
were very pleased by the opportunity
to include articles by such top
journalists. They sent a
representative to Beijing to meet us.
Because he failed to get
authorization from his superior in
Beijing, this attempt failed as well.
Eventually, an editor of the Guizhou
People's Publishing House named Xu
Yinong got our interviews published
in the form of a book. This was the
book "Yangtze, Yangtze." Due to the
student demonstrations in early 1989
that ended with the June 4
massacre, the two government
conferences did not meet. By the
time the conferences met again in
1992, however, one-third of the representatives voted against the
construction of Three Gorges Dam. You can say that my book had an
effect on public opinion.
ENS: So how did you become an environmentalist? Was it because of
your involvement in Three Gorges Dam?
DQ: No. Actually, before I received the Goldman Environmental Award
in 1993, I always thought of myself as a human rights activist,
particularly a free speech activist. Had there been free press, the
opinions of the scientists who were opposed to Three Gorges Dam
would have been made public without my involvement. So when I
received the award in 1993, I was very touched by those who shared
the award with me for that year. They had risked their lives for
environmental protection. Compared with them, I was nobody. I think
that it was because of the Goldman Award and the experience of
meeting other winners that made me an environmentalist.
ENS: What are you doing now?
DQ: Right now I am a visiting scholar in the Wilson Center in
Washington, D.C. I will be going back to China soon. I am an
individual member of the Three Gorges Action Coalition (sic),
which is a worldwide organization monitoring the Three Gorges Dam. Presently, I
attend all meetings that have something to do with Three Gorges -
no other Chinese groups do so, although I am still very busy with my
other writings.
I believe that it will take time for the Chinese government and people
to change their behavior pattern. The same is true for human beings
worldwide. As time passes, people's environmental consciousness will
strengthen. People in China will get more information about the
environment. I hope that more people will become aware of and pay
attention to the situation of Three Gorges Dam.
I also hope that more people will voice opposition against the
financiers who support the project and those who want to sell
machinery to China for the dam.
ENS: Thank you very much for your time.
© Environment News Service (ENS) 1999. All Rights Reserved.