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DAM-L LS: Interviews with Medha and Arundhati on SSP Ruling (fwd)
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subject: LS: Interviews with Medha and Arundhati on SSP Ruling
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1. 'I'll fight to the end,' October 18, 2000, The Rediff Interview/Medha Patkar
2. 'I am with the people whatever they decide,' October 19, 2000, The
Rediff Interview/Arundhati Roy
------------------------
'I'll fight to the end'
The Rediff Interview/Medha Patkar
October 18, 2000
------------------------
Narmada Bachao Andolan leader Medha Patkar on Wednesday criticised the
Supreme Court judgment on the Narmada dam. In an interview to Sheela Bhatt,
she said she would fight to the end, adding, ''No one can kill my
strength.'' Excerpts from the interview:
What do you think of the apex court's judgment?
It's not a real judgment, because they have not been able to judge the
reality, which is very complex and still very unclear. Even if you consider
only the social aspect of the issue concerning rehabilitation of 35,000
families, where is the land to settle them? The judgment betrays the hopes
of the tribals and peasants and all who are victimised.
Why could you not argue your case well?
The judges were misled by the state governments' reports. They have put
unjustifiable faith in the system without considering the facts of the
case. The Tribunal Award is violated every minute. How can you depend on
it? The court has asked the Narmada Control Authority to prepare a plan for
rehabilitation in four weeks. This is impossible.
The Maharashtra and Madhya Pradesh governments have told us in writing that
they don't have any land to spare, not even for a village. MP Chief
Minister Digvijay Singh has said this on record. What else do you want to
know? Now, the people will judge the judgement.
What is your plan of action now?
Let the Gujarat Government plan the construction of the dam. I will let you
know my plan later. I will file a defamation case against people claiming
that the Narmada Bachao Andolan is accepting foreign funds. Ours is the
only institution not accepting money from abroad. We are not even accepting
award money. I'll fight to the finish. I'll not leave it here. My heart
tells me to carry on.
Would you like to highlight any point of the judgment?
The judgment was not unanimous. It is a majority judgment. The SC has
allowed construction of the dam up to 90 metres. Already, 88 metres have
been constructed. After every five metres, the Gujarat government has been
asked to take the approval of many sub-groups connected to rehabilitation
and environment and the grievance redressal cell. This is worth noting .The
court has express faith in the same system which has failed miserably so far.
Another important aspect is that Justice S P Bharucha has disagreed with
Chief Justice A S Anand and Justice B N Kirpal.
His dissenting note is important. He says there is need to reconsider the
environmental aspects and he has emphasised the need for fresh environment
assessment.
Is your faith shaken up?
Law has a place in democracy, a limited place. Yes, we went to court. We
went because we were concerned about the lives and livelihood of victims of
the project. We stood by them. In view of globalisation and liberalisation,
more people are going to be affected. The fight has to go on. I can't leave
the battle and shall not leave it. This is a symbolic battle. It was
non-violent, but it has taken on the proportion of a war-like situation. I
have to take this fight, this issue, this agitation... to its logical end
and this judgment is not the logical end.
The people have no option. What will they do when they will be evicted and
they will not be offered alternative land?
The judgment is a betrayal of both - the people of the valley and
drought-affected people of Kutch and Saurashtra, for whom this will not be
a solution to the water crisis.
Are you tired?
Not tired but very much disappointed. So-called democratic institutions are
important, but hope helps me to think about the next generation. The
judgment is important and such institutional channels are important, but
this is a legal judgment. I'll wait for the human judgment. Legal justice
has arrived. Human justice will come too. People's faith in our fight gives
us strength. No one can kill my strength.
------------------------
'I am with the people whatever they decide'
The Rediff Interview/ Arundhati Roy
October 19, 2000
------------------------
Booker Prize winner Arundhati Roy was a late entrant to the Narmada Bachao
Andolan. But when she went to the valley and camped there, she hogged all
the media attention.
When the Supreme Court delivered its historic judgement on the Sardar
Savovar Dam on October 18, Roy was once again focus of the media attention.
Roy, in an interview to Onkar Singh, described the majority judgment by the
apex court allowing the Gujarat and Madhya Pradesh governments to raise the
height of the dam to 90 metres as a 'defeat for democracy' and a major
setback for those who believe in peaceful demonstrations.
What is your reaction to the judgment that allows the construction of the
Sardar Sarovar dam to 90 metres and also allows further raising of the
height subject to mandatory environment and rehabilitation clearances?
I think it is a very sad moment in the history of democracy. I think there
is no other word to describe the judgment than to call it absolutely
disgraceful. I think it is not just democracy that is being attacked but
the whole notion of non-violence.
Here you have a people's movement fought with intellectual rigour and
political restraint. I would say that this is one of the most spectacular
movements in the history of the Indian democracy. I am talking about
400,000 people who are losing their homes because of the dam. It is sad
that the court did not even mention fundamental rights. The whole thing was
decided on some superficial technicality.
The judgment says the construction should proceed in accordance with the
tribunal's award. We all know that in the last 15 years the tribunal's
ruling has been violated a number of times. It is an order that contradicts
itself. The order effectively says that you can violate the tribunal but we
will pretend that the tribunal is being implemented.
But if you had won the case you would have said that this is victory for
democracy. Is that right?
Of course I would have said that. If the judgment had been in our favour it
would have been a tremendous victory for the people who have been involved
in the NBA.
What do you plan to do next?
I am an individual person. I a writer who completely supports a cause. We
the urban people have a lot of respect for the Supreme Court of India. But
the people in the valley are losing jobs and their houses. I can say it is
okay we lost, I am going away and I am going to write another book.
I have an option while they don't. I do not know what course of action they
will take in future. But whatever they decide I am with them.
I would go a step further and say that what has happened on Wednesday is
worse than before. For five years we have fought a battle and now we are
told that in the case of a dispute, the prime minister of India would
decide what to do and how to resolve the differences.
What the hell does it mean? Are you trying to say that this country is a
banana republic? I have no respect for this kind of thing totally. I am
absolutely devastated by this judgment. It is absolutely shocking.
Do you feel guilty that because of your agitation the cost of the project
has gone up?
Why should I feel guilty? You know that for the last 15 years people have
not been rehabilitated. Do you feel guilty for that? The tribunal said
everyone who is going to be submerged should be rehabilitated a year before.
Long after their lands have been submerged, people have been wandering
around and they have not yet been rehabilitated. Why should I feel guilty?
I feel terribly sad about the fact that we live in a country where the
voice of the poor is not heard at all.
The cost of the project can go up even by ten times, but I can tell you
that this project is not for the poor people.
But this is not the only project which is suffering because of
demonstrations. Other projects like Tehri have also run into similar problems.
I agree with you but you should also keep in mind that the big projects
have so far displaced 33 million people. This is shocking.
How do you produce electricity if you don't have dams?
They are not needed. Dams are old technology. Dams in India produce only 17
per cent of the total electricity. And over 70 per cent of our rural
population still does not have the benefit of electricity.
The Gujarat government claims that the drought in the state is due to the
hurdles in the completion of the dam.
You look at the map, you see where the drought areas are and where the
command area of the dam is. There is no overlap. They can claim that Sardar
Sarovar can give you bed-tea and breakfast. Will you believe them?
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