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RE: Please save the pre-shared key mode
On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Wang, Cliff wrote:
>
> This thread is talking about saving the pre-shared key mode, instead of
> saying nothing else works.
>
> I am not sure how you can hide a whole PKI system away under smart UI?
I'm not about to design your products for you, but several alternatives have
been proposed, ranging from using self-signed pre-shared certs and using
key-finger-prints in lieu of a pre-shared key. The rest is up to you.
> I am also not sure how smart UI can solve the issue that on Cisco low end
> box PKI based IPsec performs much slower in comparison to PSK based IPsec.
>
The last point seems completely off topic. I can't run linux on my wristwatch
either. What's the point? New things may only work on newer boxes.
jan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jan Vilhuber [mailto:vilhuber@cisco.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 2:58 PM
> To: Wang, Cliff
> Cc: 'Dan McDonald'; ipsec@lists.tislabs.com
> Subject: RE: Please save the pre-shared key mode
>
>
> On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Wang, Cliff wrote:
>
> > >From the operation point of view, PSK is quick and easy to set up
> > >service.
> > It works and customers are happy. It is more real than a myth.
> >
> The myth is that nothing else works. PSK is a behind-the-scenes abstraction,
> that good programmers can hide from users altogether. A good UI can hide any
> other mechanism as well and make it as easy to configure.
>
> jan
>
>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jan Vilhuber [mailto:vilhuber@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 6:39 PM
> > To: Wang, Cliff
> > Cc: 'Dan McDonald'; ipsec@lists.tislabs.com
> > Subject: RE: Please save the pre-shared key mode
> >
> > > On the
> > > other hand, PSK based IKE and PKI based IKE has been the main way people
> > > deploying VPN. Under that context, PSK is simpler to run than PKI.
> > >
> > I think that's the myth Dan was talking about.
> >
> > jan
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dan McDonald [mailto:danmcd@east.sun.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:28 PM
> > > To: Wang, Cliff
> > > Cc: ipsec@lists.tislabs.com
> > > Subject: Re: Please save the pre-shared key mode
> > >
> > >
> > > > 1) Simplicity
> > > > Pre-shared key mode is simpler to support by eliminating the
> > > > requirement of supporting complex PKI.
> > >
> > > It's a myth that public-key implies you MUST have a PKI.
> > >
> > > Self-signed certs combined with explicit out-of-band trust models is
> > > just a non-cumbersome as pre-shared keys, IMHO, and they also offer
> > > IP-address-portability. (Henry Spencer, correct me if I'm wrong, but
> > > FreeSWAN has a self-signed cert model that works, right?)
> > >
> > > If we keep pre-shared, let's have a scalable way of identifying
> > > them.
> > > In a multi-homed world (esp. IPv6), pre-shared keys indexed by address
> > > pairs is as much hassle as PKI registration (it's just less snake-oil
> > > than most PKIs ;).
> > >
> > > For testing, I run server machines with self-signed certs. For
> > > small
> > > (10-100) numbers of clients, it works out _quite_ nicely, and w/o any
> > > of the PKI cruft. Peer-to-peer explosions is about the only case
> > > where PKI is really needed, and pre-shared won't help you any there
> > > either. It's just a matter of running certificate-generation, e-mail,
> > > and verifying hashes out-of-band.
> > >
> > > I'm not totally against nuking pre-shared. It's not, however, the
> > > panacea of simplicity many think it is, and simplicity arguments don't
> > > hold water.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Jan Vilhuber vilhuber@cisco.com
> > Cisco Systems, San Jose (408) 527-0847
> >
>
> --
> Jan Vilhuber vilhuber@cisco.com
> Cisco Systems, San Jose (408) 527-0847
>
--
Jan Vilhuber vilhuber@cisco.com
Cisco Systems, San Jose (408) 527-0847
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