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Re: PPP over IPSec (without L2TP)?



At 07:07 PM 10/19/99 +0300, you wrote:


David Chen wrote:

> At 12:02 PM 10/14/99 +0300, you wrote:
> >Microsoft's position regarding L2TP is according to
> >http://www.microsoft.com/windows/server/Technical/networking/NWPriv.asp
> >(partly) the following:
> >
> >L2TP is a well-defined, interoperable protocol that addresses the current
> >shortcomings of IPSec-only client-to-gateway and gateway-to-gateway
> >scenarios (user authentication, tunnel IP address assignment, and
> >multiprotocol support). L2TP has broad vendor support, particularly among
> >the largest network access equipment providers, and has verified
> >interoperability. By placing L2TP as payload within an IPSec packet,
> >communications benefit from the standards-based encryption and authenticity of
> >IPSec, while also receiving a highly interoperable way to accomplish user
> >authentication, tunnel address assignment, multiprotocol support, and
> >multicast support using PPP. This combination is commonly referred to as
> >L2TP/IPSec. Lacking a better pure IPSec standards solution, Microsoft
> >believes that L2TP/IPSec provides the best standards based solution for
> >multi-vendor, interoperable client-to-gateway VPN scenarios. Microsoft is
> >working closely with key networking vendors including Cisco, 3Com,
> >Lucent and IBM, to support this important combination.
> >
> >I agree that having PPP gives us the stated benefits (and more?). However,
> >I fail to see why there
> >is a need to have an L2TP (and UDP) layer(s) between PPP and IPSec. As I
> >understand
> >L2TP, it would give us two benefits a) being able to tunnel PPP over
> >several links, which
> >IPSec already gives us, and b) being able to specify telephone world
> >things like calling /
> >called numbers and call failures due to a busy tone, which in a general IP
> >world are non-relevant.
> >
> >I agree that a lot of Internet connectivity is through a telephone
> >network, but the calling numbers
> >should not be relied on for any sort of identification, despite what the
> >telephone world people
> >would like to convince people to believe. The only valid usage for
> >telephone numbers that
> >I see is call charging, but the ISPs are free to use L2TP for that purpose
> >without there being
> >any need for IPSec security gateways or IPSec hosts knowing or even caring
> >about it.
> >
> >So, please show me what benefits PPP over L2TP over IPSec provides when
> >compared
> >to just running PPP over IPSec? If there are some, which is possible,
> >wouldn't it be
> >better to enhance IPSec protocol(s) to enable the same, instead of having
> >L2TP?

It is better, if IPSec has all PPP features.
Why bother with L2TP? If you like to "enhance IPSec protocol(s)"
--- David


> The last sentence is ????
> If you like to improve IPSec, why bother L2TP?
> Just put all PPP features into IPSec.  :-)
> This is not a good logic.
> --- David

Pardon? I fail to parse that.. What do you mean?

Ari


>
>
> >--
> >Ari Huttunen                   phone: +358 9 859 900
> >Senior Software Engineer       fax  : +358 9 8599 0452
> >
> >Data Fellows Corporation       http://www.DataFellows.com
> >
> >F-Secure products: Integrated Solutions for Enterprise Security

--
Ari Huttunen                   phone: +358 9 859 900
Senior Software Engineer       fax  : +358 9 8599 0452

Data Fellows Corporation       http://www.DataFellows.com

F-Secure products: Integrated Solutions for Enterprise Security

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