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Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-lifetime-00.txt



One of my motivations of this draft was to "gently" push for a son-of-ike. I
would love to see the ACK'd notify messages in Son-of-ike or maybe
recognition that this is a stateful protocol that either requires connection
based transport, or better defined robustness in the draft. I still think
that, until that day comes, this is still a useful proposal. Maybe this
could be in the son-of-ike as well.

Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Thomas" <mat@cisco.com>
To: "Scott Fanning" <sfanning@cisco.com>
Cc: "Michael Thomas" <mat@cisco.com>; <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>;
<mailto:IETF-Announce:@cisco.com;; <ipsec@lists.tislabs.com>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-lifetime-00.txt


> Scott Fanning writes:
>  > Er, you are right, but I don't see much movement on the ack'd notify
front.
>  > Since changing IKE is not allowed, this seemed like the easiest route
to
>  > move forward with. Also, acks could be lost as well, so 3b could happen
in
>  > the ACK'd case as well. I do not claim that this solves every problem,
but I
>  > think it is a simple solution that could be implemented in a short
amount of
>  > time, with little interop issues.
>
>    If there were a son-of-ike, would this be a potential change?
>    It seems like all that his necessary is to have a bit which
>    requires the peer to send a (potentially empty) notification
>    in response.
>
>    As far as the ACK lossage goes, there are two cases:
>
>    1) initiator loses the response from respondent
>    2) respondent loses ACK from initiator
>
>    In case one, the initiator would obliged to retransmit
>    its request since it didn't get a response. In case two,
>    it's just a matter of knowing when to *really* shutdown
>    the SA so that in-flight packets aren't lost, if it keeps
>    the SA open at all while waiting for the ACK. In that
>    case, a grace timer which expires in lieu of the ACK
>    is probably sufficient since it's really just a courtesy.
>    If respondent needs a fail safe method, it can, as well,
>    send the delete notification as an initiator.
>
>     Mike
>
>  >
>  > Scott
>  > ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: "Michael Thomas" <mat@cisco.com>
>  > To: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
>  > Cc: <IETF-Announce:;>; <ipsec@lists.tislabs.com>
>  > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 6:39 AM
>  > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-lifetime-00.txt
>  >
>  >
>  > >
>  > > Er, wouldn't the more sensible thing to do here in
>  > > general is to create a means of having a reliable
>  > > Delete notification?  This is what KINK does, and
>  > > seems a lot more sensible/robust overall. I'll
>  > > note that this still seems to have the packet loss
>  > > problem described in section 3b.
>  > >
>  > >   Mike
>  > >
>  > > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org writes:
>  > >  > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>  > directories.
>  > >  > This draft is a work item of the IP Security Protocol Working
Group of
>  > the IETF.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > Title : Responder Lifetime Notify Message for IKE
>  > >  > Author(s) : S. Fanning
>  > >  > Filename : draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-lifetime-00.txt
>  > >  > Pages : 5
>  > >  > Date : 26-Jul-01
>  > >  >
>  > >  > This document describes how the RESPONDER-LIFETIME notify message,
>  > >  > used within the ISAKMP DOI can be used to facilitate lifetime
>  > >  > negotiation and rekeying.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>  > >  >
>  >
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-lifetime-00.txt
>  > >  >
>  > >  > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with
the
>  > username
>  > >  > "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging
in,
>  > >  > type "cd internet-drafts" and then
>  > >  > "get draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-lifetime-00.txt".
>  > >  >
>  > >  > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
>  > >  > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>  > >  > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>  > >  >
>  > >  >
>  > >  > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
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>  > >  > Send a message to:
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>  > >  > In the body type:
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>  > >  >
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>  > >  >
>  > >  > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
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>  > >  > Internet-Draft.
>  > >  > Content-Type: text/plain
>  > >  > Content-ID: <20010726170632.I-D@ietf.org>
>  > >  >
>  > >  > ENCODING mime
>  > >  > FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipsec-ike-lifetime-00.txt
>  > >  > Content-Type: text/plain
>  > >  > Content-ID: <20010726170632.I-D@ietf.org>
>  >



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